http://online-discussion.com/ScottHenderson/viewtopic.php?t=1086&sid=dfe690ccec84798f3c4d218a8654dc5e

Did any of the other musicians in the Elektric band have the adverse reaction to Chick? FYI Chick's crowd/entourage are jokingly referred to as the "Sci Fi's" by some musicians...

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WARNING - religious people may be offended by this answer.

I don't think Weckl and Patitucci were as wary of him as I was, since I definitely have no use for organized religion, and Scientology is #1 on my avoid at all cost list. John is a Christian, so I'm sure he had his own issues with Chick's beliefs, but while I was in the band he kept them to himself. After I was gone, I heard they were "arguing religions" which I find outrageously barbaric. Nothing more pathetic than people arguing about things they think they know, but in reality, don't. Dave and I never discussed religion with anyone while I was in the band, but my personal lifestyle with some of the female audience members was in direct violation of Scientology doctrine, so I had to hide it from them, an act I'm not at all proud of. Even though I still regard Chick as one of the most brilliant pianists in the world, very much enjoyed listening to him play every night, and shared some laughs and good times with him, to this day I regret taking that gig - it wasn't at all what I expected. I thought it would be musically challenging and good for my career, but at that time, Chick was into having a highly commercial band. His stage and performance concepts negatively affected my attitude and playing, and I found that being a sideman did nothing for my career compared to writing my own music. Plus I felt that I'd lost my integrity because I changed my behavior so as not to offend the people around me, and no gig is worth that. In hindsight, I wish when I was told to "play your solos out on the edge of the stage" like a strutting pop star, that I had said "What is this, Vegas? Go **** yourself". Then my six month gig as guitarist for the Elektric Band would have been reduced to one week.

After that experience I'd pretty much decided never to be a sideman again, but luckily I got the gig with Zawinul. Not only was the music great, but there were no cults or religious zealots, and there were WAY more hot chicks at the gigs. That was a good healing period for me after what I'd been through with the Flanders family.

Let me clarify one thing - I'm a tolerant person and don't hold anyone's beliefs against them personally. Some of my close friends and relatives are religious people. I don't say anything offensive to them about their beliefs, as long as they don't try to convert me. People can believe as they wish and still be tolerant of others who believe differently.

My problem is with intolerance - the organizations and their evangelists, the Jerry Falwell's of the world (good riddance ******* ), and the people who think it's their duty to round up more candidates for their religion because "theirs is the only way". Scientologists are evangelists by definition. They think of themselves as superior human beings - that's scary enough, but their game plan is to "clear the planet", coming dangerously close to Nazism, which is why Scientology is so heavily investigated and criticized by the German government. Having been down that road themselves, it's easy to see why Germany recognizes Scientology as the devious entity that it is, and they're one of the countries which has come close to banning it completely. Even though somehow this money hungry cult still enjoys tax exempt status as a religion in the US, they've definitely been exposed by reputable journalists for what they really are. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html

Unlike the Muslim religion, which generated a small number of extremists who endanger innocent people, Scientologists are extremists by nature, because they endanger anyone who's weak minded enough to be taken in by their scam. They may not blow people up, but the emotional, psychological, and financial damage they do to people is almost as severe. http://www.clambake.org/

On a very personal note, my sister and I were psychologically abused as children by horrific cult #2 on my list - Christianity. Baptists to be more precise. We were taught (as children!!) that we would burn in hell for disobeying the doctrine of the church. Many religions abuse children in sickening ways that are as bad or worse than physical abuse. Except for the many Catholic priests who seem to really enjoy the physical abuse as well. But the real criminals are the Catholic officials who simply shuffle the offenders off to different parishes so they can continue their crimes instead of going to prison, where they can get their rectums re-sized to see how they like it. I could go on for pages about these mother****ers with their holy wars, pompous gold-laden cathedrals, and mind-bending wrist-slapping penguins, not to mention their help in the spread of AIDS and trampling over women's rights for centuries. And to top it all off, the Pope's last album sucked! So, how many hail mary's do I need for that paragraph? Answer: 0

Also the elderly are often victims because of their gullibility. My poor mother died penniless after being scammed for tens of thousands of dollars by swindlers Oral Roberts and Pat Robertson. If there is a hell, those guys will be living in the basement. What are you gonna do... too many Christians, not enough lions. Just kidding, sort of. I'm not really sure after being raised in a religious household how I finally came to realize that it was all a bunch of superstitious bull****. Common sense I guess, or maybe because luckily I got a gig when I was 16 playing Rolling Stones covers at the Candy Bar strip club, and had to decide whether to keep playing guitar in church or take that gig. What a no-brainer.

As humans gradually evolve and learn to think for themselves, brainwashing will become more and more difficult to achieve, so it's inevitable that cults and religions will eventually dissolve into laughable memories like "the world is flat". Of course that'll never happen in our lifetime. Just as KKK members brainwash their children with their own prejudice, religious people do the same to their children to perpetuate their own superstitions. Who knows how many generations it will take to end it. Most likely Earthlings will be living on other planets by then, but at least there won't be a need for a Pope spacemobile.

We have a saying in the business:

Don't **** where you eat.

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Originally posted by moko:
FG, care to comment on that answer to a question on Chick Corea's beliefs by Scott Henderson ?

http://online-discussion.com/ScottHenderson/viewtopic.php?t=1086&sid=dfe6 90ccec84798f3c4d218a8654dc5e

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WARNING - religious people may be offended by this answer.

For more on the evils of religion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion
For entertainment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc8cQtXQvrg
http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/912/
Also, you can buy Bill Maher's great film Religulous on iTunes for 9.99. Worth every penny.

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I have studied history most of my life.. Let's start at Adolf Hitler, He hated Religion and killed 7 Million Jews! He also started a war that killed 50 million people and in the end wanted to erase his own country from the planet "nice guy" Religion had nothing to do with that freak..

Jehovahs Witnesses will not go to war! they believe that every living person on the planet are brothers and sisters... and yet they died by the thousands in the holocaust! went to prison for not going to war! Got lined up against a wall and shot by their own country for not going to war in Russia, Germany and Japan! They went too prison in the USA for not going to war also.......They believe that when you die you go to sleep in death and according to God you have paid the ultimate price "Your Life" and now have a chance at living again.. they do not teach a Hellfire doctrine. And yet they are a Religion...

The Hellfire doctrine was started by the churches back around 800 A.D. as a way to control Kings and Queens... the church did not allow the printing of the Bible "so that no one would find out the truth about death or life"

We live in a Society that has twisted people living among us
one mans belief is another mans nightmare
"that is your problem right there..."
Human Greed and sick thinking people are the ones that start this crap.. and yet that's half of society..
So, what do you do...
Well I can tell you where to start.. By not listening to Scott Henderson or the people that teach killing another person is "your god given right" Next we erase this stupid post.. cause this is the planet we live on dude!

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Originally posted by David King:
Frank, can you go in and ERASE THIS CRAP and get it off the board! This POST needs to go.. I can't stand this narrow minded crap!!!!!!! Thanks.. From David

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I hope he doesn't erase the post, that would be silly. It's fair game...

Chick probably has mellowed over the years and when Scott was in the band Chick was more high strung about it.

music is my only religion, so lets pray. I like the concept of karma, it makes more sense to me.

R.

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Originally posted by rainmkr63:

Chick probably has mellowed over the years and when Scott was in the band Chick was more high strung about it.

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Very good point. He was likely new to it and more gung ho at that time. Obviously it rubbed Scott the wrong way which is fine, but how FG feels about how Scott feels about Chick is an odd path to take.

And what's wrong with entertaining the crowd? Is the crowd supposed to get all excited about your playing as you stare at your fret board? What's wrong with giving the crowd a bit of a show?

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Originally posted by Tmidiman:
So what's wrong with being a sideman? I think you get out of it what you put into it. Learn some new ways to look at and play music. Make some contacts in the music biz you may not have knew about or had access to previously.

And what's wrong with entertaining the crowd? Is the crowd supposed to get all excited about your playing as you stare at your fret board? What's wrong with giving the crowd a bit of a show?

I agree that as stated above this could have been asked without that entire post, but what ever.

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With all this ancient catholic nonsense and criminal priests it's about time to stop the madness. If they were what they try to make us believe they are, the church would give its huge pile of money to the poor and stop acting soooo hypocritical.

That's too bad, because I'm sure he has lots of things to say. It's all about concessions, they exist in every business. Some can, other don't.

Reminds me of Tim Burton, who's presiding the Cannes festival in France, asked about the Polanski affair : "We all fight for the freedom of expression".

Which tends to be DIVISIVE and non-constructive anyway, and which FG ALREADY ANSWERED years ago (check the old threads/archives).

IMHO, Henderson's RANT is really rather silly. He's a FINE GUITARIST and all that, but in his RANT he comes dangerously CLOSE to creating the VERY THING he's complaining about in the first place.

I don't understand his WHINE about Chick telling him where to STAND on the stage, either. If 'I' was ever lucky enough to play along-side that GENIUS (Corea) I'd stand up there in a CLOWN SUIT if I were asked to !! *lol*

But that's just MY two cents worth...

I haven't checked out moko's links yet, however, I do have to say immediately that Bill Maher's Religulous was a disgrace. I'm totally anti-religious, but Bill's disrespectful approach to the subject would never make anyone who is involved with religion (too deeply) take it as anything more than that.

I guess Mr. Maher was out to profit from those who share his sense of humor.

Parts of it are hilarious, but I felt like I was watching Howard Stern - laughing cos it was so funny, even though it was wrong to laugh at. (I did draw the conclusion Bill M is a schmuck though, that's obvious watching it - I lost what little respect i had for him)

I couldn't play the devil's instrument (ha, the guitar) until I moved out of the house. Didn't start until I was 21, but success IS the best revenge...I do it full time now and mom & dad are so proud... I digress...

As far as Henderson staying true to himself and hating the 'show-biz' side of the Corea act, I have 2 viewpoints: the first is I'm amazed that he could stay so true to his path and give up the $ and the high visibility afforded him and I totally salute it, the second thing relates...in that its the $ and high visibility which helps an artist to keep things moving down the road (and ramping up too)

As far as why the post should be taken down, I have no idea. I don't find anything offensive with it at all. Of course, now that I've read it, it wouldn't bother me if it was taken down....lol

Cheers to all....saints or sinners

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Originally posted by David King:
Maybe Scotts pissed off because he couldn't keep time.. I heard that Chick C. is hard core when it comes to timing! And poor old Scott Henderson couldn't do it.. Then got thrown out of the group.. Now his ego is talkin trash...

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Looks like Scott touched your nerve, right ?

What's the problem with my post ? I'm only quoting a great musician on topics that concern everybody. Why this board should not be a place to discuss things indirectly related to music ? Why being so totalitarian people (I mean some of you) ? "Erase" : that's all you know ? Shame on you.

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Originally posted by David King:
Maybe Scotts pissed off because he couldn't keep time.. I heard that Chick C. is hard core when it comes to timing! And poor old Scott Henderson couldn't do it.. Then got thrown out of the group.. Now his ego is talkin trash...

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Didn't happen. SH has some of the best time in the biz and you'll never hear anyone with any credibility say otherwise.

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Originally posted by russ6100:
Didn't happen. SH has some of the best time in the biz and you'll never hear anyone with any credibility say otherwise.

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I agree...
Players on that level like Frank or Holdsworth are human metronomes.

And i think Frank was clever enough to keep a gig which is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I don't mean of cource that Scott is the opposite...on the contrary.

He has just another point of view.

At the end i wouldn't believe that Chick could force a band member to go to a specific religious direction. (You never know of cource...)

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Originally posted by David King:
Maybe Scotts pissed off because he couldn't keep time.. I heard that Chick C. is hard core when it comes to timing! And poor old Scott Henderson couldn't do it.. Then got thrown out of the group.. Now his ego is talkin trash...

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Originally posted by Jeff Felderman:
Scott has some of the most amazing sense of time, so I doubt that highly.

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Here's what I was told by Don Mock.. Scott Henderson has a problem playing with a pick "he can't pick worth crap".. Don should know "he lived with him". Don also said Scott was the most talented of all the guys he met at GIT... He Just couldn't pick very well.. Chick Corea doesn't use a pick so his timing is pretty much "tight". I could see this leading to problems in the studio if your a musical freak and demand exact timing.. that's what the band was all about.. A really tight performance..

Scott H. statement
"Floating" is just a term which means playing rubato. That's when you play phrases that aren't associated with the time grid of the song...

Here is another interview
S.H.: Well, actually, I got fired from Chick's band because I wasn't cooperating with what they wanted me to do. I just didn't like what they were doing, so, I didn't necessarily want to leave the band...it was good money, good exposure, but sometimes you have to make decisions on whether you like this enough to go on…you weight the good and bad and when the bad rules, you don't care anymore. I had mixed feelings. On one hand it was really great being the guitar player for the Chick Corea Electric Band, because we played in big places, getting seen by a lot of people, listening to him play was really fun because he is a great improviser… But, at the same time, always being told what to do, never getting to play chords:::

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Originally posted by David King:
Here's what I was told by Don Mock.. Scott Henderson has a problem playing with a pick "he can't pick worth crap".. Don should know "he lived with him". Don also said Scott was the most talented of all the guys he met at GIT... He Just couldn't pick very well.. Chick Corea doesn't use a pick so his timing is pretty much "tight". I could see this leading to problems in the studio if your a musical freak and demand exact timing.. that's what the band was all about.. A really tight performance..

Scott H. statement
"Floating" is just a term which means playing rubato. That's when you play phrases that aren't associated with the time grid of the song...

Here is another interview
S.H.: Well, actually, I got fired from Chick's band because I wasn't cooperating with what they wanted me to do. I just didn't like what they were doing, so, I didn't necessarily want to leave the band...it was good money, good exposure, but sometimes you have to make decisions on whether you like this enough to go on…you weight the good and bad and when the bad rules, you don't care anymore. I had mixed feelings. On one hand it was really great being the guitar player for the Chick Corea Electric Band, because we played in big places, getting seen by a lot of people, listening to him play was really fun because he is a great improviser… But, at the same time, always being told what to do, never getting to play chords:::

Frank is the only guy who can answer this post...

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Well Frank is a pro and conducts himself with class, something you should try once or twice. He's not gonna touch this with a ten foot pole.

Does it even cross your mind, maybe just a little bit, that Don might not really want it posted on the internet that "SH picks like crap"? (if he indeed ever said that)Don't you think it should be up to Don to publish his own thoughts on things?

And this:

>"Floating" is just a term which means >playing rubato. That's when you play >phrases that aren't associated with the >time grid of the song...

Are you posting this as some sort of evidence that SH has less than great time?

Where's the face-palm smiley when you need it???

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Originally posted by David King:
Here's what I was told by Don Mock.. Scott Henderson has a problem playing with a pick "he can't pick worth crap".. Don should know "he lived with him". Don also said Scott was the most talented of all the guys he met at GIT... He Just couldn't pick very well.. Chick Corea doesn't use a pick so his timing is pretty much "tight". I could see this leading to problems in the studio if your a musical freak and demand exact timing.. that's what the band was all about.. A really tight performance..

Scott H. statement
"Floating" is just a term which means playing rubato. That's when you play phrases that aren't associated with the time grid of the song...

Here is another interview
S.H.: Well, actually, I got fired from Chick's band because I wasn't cooperating with what they wanted me to do. I just didn't like what they were doing, so, I didn't necessarily want to leave the band...it was good money, good exposure, but sometimes you have to make decisions on whether you like this enough to go on…you weight the good and bad and when the bad rules, you don't care anymore. I had mixed feelings. On one hand it was really great being the guitar player for the Chick Corea Electric Band, because we played in big places, getting seen by a lot of people, listening to him play was really fun because he is a great improviser… But, at the same time, always being told what to do, never getting to play chords:::

Frank is the only guy who can answer this post...

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S.H. has trouble using a pick.. does that change the fact that the guy was called the most talented of all the players by Don? Nope.. that's the best compliment you could get from someone.. But, every guitarist has some weakness that they work on for years.. some get past it others don't.. So what

David, you might wanna go shop around for some new upholstery for than armchair of yours...

Chick didn't compose tunes at the 1st CCEB cd which had technical demands.

Maybe because of Scott? dunno...

But i don't think it's a reason to kick him out of the band. After all he auditioned Scott before he hired him, didn't he?

So he knew about the technique level of Scott.

Besides that, Chick can compose accordingly with the players he has.

Think that CCEB first cd and CCEB II has not unison parts with guitar and all these stuff like "Inside Out" for instance...why?

Probably because he hadn't the guitar players with the necessary technique level.

As fas as for "floating" Sco is reaaaaaly "floating"...if you transcribe him you'll figure it out...

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Originally posted by russ6100:
SH will tell you himself that he has a rather undisciplined right hand, but he plays a lot of hammer-ons, pull-offs and slurs anyway. His parting ways with Chick had nothing to do with his timing.
[This message has been edited by russ6100 (edited 05-15-2010).]

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I guess you would know since you were in the band?
Scott Henderson was FIRED by Chick! He didn't part ways, He got thrown out of the group..

Russ, I bought the new upholstery from your daddys store "Remember, you were behind the counter when I bought it"
BTW, did you talk to Don M. yet about my playing? I was just at RMI when he was telling Jay and a bunch of students how I played one of Franks songs off the Great Explorers album and you couldn't tell the difference between Franks performance or mine! that is sounded exactly like Frank!

Thank you Mr Gambale.. I bought all of your tapes and books years ago and studied the crap out of every single one of them! All of the hard work paid off... Thanks for publishing the material.. I spent hours transfering it all to midi years ago..

BTW.. Russ the Armchair is doing great "thanks for helping me pick out the Upholstery... it was a great choice"

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Originally posted by David King:I was just at RMI when he was telling Jay and a bunch of students how I played one of Franks songs off the Great Explorers album and you couldn't tell the difference between Franks performance or mine! that is sounded exactly like Frank!

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So you're a clone and proud eh? Me, I'd rather sound exactly like myself....

Statements made on this thread already have suggested making religion illegal and one post that begins "to me it's all about..." How's that for intolerance, dogma and arrogance (just not religious, of course)?

I do however, see how it's possible he could've got thrown out due to a weak RH - I'm NOT saying he has one - but let's face it, he can't pick through piano/horn lines like Gambale, so maybe that was part of the reason he wasn't a fit with Chick? Who knows...

What I do see of Scott on youtube is, he's BLATANTLY honest about everything - my gosh, the dude is totally authentic so I don't think he'd lie about the situation. I think if he got fired/kicked out/etc, he'd tell us and tell us why. It's obvious he was happy when he got out!

As far as his timing goes, I think he's a master musician and could play anything he put his mind to learning/rehearsing. So, unless it was a specifically all plucked horn/key lines in Chick's concert sets (that Frank plays effortlessly), I don't see how SH could've had timing problems.

As far as Don Mock possibly saying SH's RH technique is weak - I believe, they're friends and they're pros.... at a certain point, you just realize you can't be all things to everybody, nor have every single technique down.

I can fingerpick Scott Henderson under the table, he can improvise a little better than me... there's a lot his artistry only he can be, Scott knows it, Don knows it...we all know it...at their/our age, hopefully we're not fooling ourselves anymore and can just be honest. If Scott can't be honest, than perhaps hearing Don speak of his weakness would make him address it a little more? If not, at the least then, who knows, maybe Scott will appreciate Yngwie's RH technique more next time he hears him?

"I have read", "I have heard", "I was told" : useless. Try again.

And again, it would be great if FG told us the real story, if he knows it.

[This message has been edited by moko (edited 05-16-2010).]

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Originally posted by Keep Practicing:

I do however, see how it's possible he could've got thrown out due to a weak RH - I'm NOT saying he has one - but let's face it, he can't pick through piano/horn lines like Gambale, so maybe that was part of the reason he wasn't a fit with Chick? Cheers

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That's the problem right there! he couldn't play through blazing piano lines... that's the timing problem I'm talking about!! Scott Henderson is one of my favorite players.. I bought all of his stuff when he left chicks band...
Another Point:
Don Mock is an incredible player/teacher.. But, Even Don talked about the problem with alternate picking... You reach a speed where it becomes very difficult to keep up with the piano player.. So you have to learn how to work around this issue... One day at his house I started alternate picking some jazz lines... Don stopped me and said "don't go down that road, Your playing sounds more flowing and unrestricted" just keep playing the way you do.. so I just left it alone... I know how to alternate pick! and you have to on some lines... But, while learning some of Franks songs it became evident that the PDF's where transcribed in the wrong way "note's were right but the position was off" so I took the stuff and started looking for a better way to play through the lines.. And it worked... I was able to come up with an easier approach to the song... it requires a large stretch "at certain points" but, I think it's better to learn how to play both ways..

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Originally posted by russ6100:
Do you actually think that Chick gave a damn whether all SH's notes were picked or not? Only anal retentive guitar geeks (like us) care about that stuff.

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That's right...

For instance when we hear a sax player i don't think that anybody thinks how he/she plays the notes. What technique is used...hmmm...maybe with the exception of the other sax players...:-)

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Originally posted by russ6100:
Do you actually think that Chick gave a damn whether all SH's notes were picked or not? Only anal retentive guitar geeks (like us) care about that stuff.

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No, I strongly feel he didn't, and that's not the point I intended. I meant that SH, possibly due to a RH technique that's not on FG's level, couldn't play some of the stuff up to tempo? I've got a pro shot concert of a CCEB show with SH, haven't watched it in years, I'll have to get it out. I don't know CCEB's material well enough to know if SH is slacking on notes off the record, but from what I recall, SH's playing on it was fantastic.

If you can't pick everything, you have to take a LOT of time to map out what will be substituted with slurs (hammers and pulls) and perhaps SH didn't feel like putting in the time. Even with his impeccable technique, FG has spoken about how much time it took to rehearse for that group.

In regards to someone's post about caring how a horn players notes are blown or slurred....it will make a difference, but past a certain speed it's almost smoke and mirrors - you can't tell how the notes are played because they just go by too fast.